Mark vs Mark: The Next Iteration (The Podcast That Never Was)

The debate of which iteration of a cherished Intellectual Property is superior isn’t a new one. As end credits roll, we’ve all heard the same laments from the audience. ‘The book is better than the movie.’ ‘That was nothing like the comics.’ ‘J J Abrams skull-f@cked my childhood.’  Pop culture discourse is the stuff friends are made of, and 29 years ago, that same debate introduced me to a kindred spirit, another creative geek named Mark with whom I argued Star Trek and Star Wars for three decades.

Mark E. Seeley was a few years older than me, so as an only child, since I had been perpetually searching for brothers and sisters throughout my youth, meeting him felt like discovering an older brother I had lost. He was the only person I had met at the time who recognized Transformers The Movie and was reading the now ‘Legends’ Star Wars books. His knowledge seemed to dwarf mine so I would try to absorb all I could, not to mention that he had gone to school for filmmaking and I was about to, so it wasn’t a shock to anyone we meshed - it even frightened our friends how similar we were at times. He took me to my first Comic-Con, we watched Star Trek premieres together, filmed skits, and went to countless movies openings. Over the years we saw each other less and less, as is life’s habit, but we always stayed in touch. During COVID things got rough for him, as he lost his newly wed wife. Trying to be a good friend, for the months that followed I tried to think of ways to keep his mind distracted. Decades of geek talk and razzing each other had to have a use, right? 

A podcast! We could do a podcast! We were both witty and nerdy enough to fill hours upon hours of debate. Mark vs Mark. This was fate. Except… neither of us knew how to actually do it. We met up for lunch on Memorial Day 2022 to brainstorm, but the technical portion of the endeavor was confusing for us old guys. If there’s a will there’s a way, right, so I waited for him to show more interest because, to quote Owen Wilson’s character in Wedding Crashers, I thrive off of enthusiasm. But Mark didn’t bring it up often, at all, likely because he too was waiting for me to. It went from an idea to a passing fancy, but I knew eventually it would happen.

Then time ran out.

Days after Halloween 2024 I found out from his brother that Mark was in the hospital with Stage 4 Pancreatic cancer and that the clock was ticking. To say this came as a shock would be a monumental understatement. We had gone to see Deadpool & Wolverine just three months prior and there was no sign of this. I went out to see him the next day and… well… unfortunately we’ve all been there. Saying goodbye but not saying goodbye is the worst. I was wrecked. Broken sleep, constantly thinking he didn’t deserve this, I should’ve tried harder, been a better friend… and if I had made the podcast happen, maybe he’d… just an endless cycle of mourning and guilt and cherishing memories I didn’t value until now. So, for months now, I’ve thought how best to process all this and honor my friend, and I’ve decided to try and create what the first episode of the podcast would have been.

When Mark and I first met and talked Transformers, he made it known he was more of a G.I. Joe guy, and that the Larry Hama written Marvel Comics were essentially his Holy Grail. I really only knew the cartoon, specifically Cobra Commander’s voice because it was the same as Starscream’s, both being performed by the late Chris Latta. This was probably the first of our debates and so it’s fitting that’s what we were planning to open with. I suggested comparing how in 1986 both the comic and cartoon handled the creation of the Cobra Emperor, Serpentor. In issue #49 of the comics, Dr. Mindbender and Destro go about raiding tombs for DNA. Season 2 of the cartoon opens with the same premise in ‘Arise, Serpentor, Arise’ but instead of it being a two man side quest, several Cobra battalions set out globally to do the same, with G.I. Joe on their tail. 

Schultis: Hey, Mark. Ready to do this?

Seeley: Of course. You’re paying me, right?

Schultis: Nope.

Seeley: Well, fuck this, I’m out of here.

Schultis: There’s a Denny’s chocolate shake waiting for you if you stay.

Seeley: Bastard. Okay, I’m in.

Schultis: Okay, great. So, today we’re debating the merits of how each iteration of G.I.Joe A Real American Hero handled the creation of Serpentor, and I’m representing the cartoon.

Seeley: And I’m representing Larry Hama’s comics, the correct iteration. Episode’s over.

Schultis: Not so fast, Other Mark. The comics failed to really establish the animosity between Cobra Commander and Serpentor. The way Cobra Commander is sabotaging the experiment at every chance, and then how quickly he adapts to the power shift while still-

Seeley: Wait, wait. First we have to discuss how radically different the comic versions of Cobra Commander and Serpentor are from the cartoon because that’s why their rivalry is so different. The cartoon version of Cobra Commander is a nincompoop. 

Schultis: That’s why we love him.

Seeely: And Serpentor is created in the comics to lead the troops, not take over Cobra. Larry Hama writes him as more charming and acts as a true leader, but the cartoon makes him a crazy dictator.

Schultis: That’s why we hate him.

Seeley: Plus, the comics was an ongoing story, always changing. The cartoon is about a new status quo. The show makes them almost a bickering couple.

Schultis: I’ll give you that, but here’s my other issue with the comics: for the majority of Serpentor’s existence in the comics, that’s not really Cobra Commander in that suit, it’s a Fred impostor. 

Seeley: Exactly. The comics Cobra Commander was too smart and diabolical to allow Serpentor to continue to amass that kind of pull over his forces. He would’ve tried to remove him sooner had he been there. Instead it eventually leads to the Cobra Civil War in issue #73.

Schultis: Which I admit, I love! Especially how as it begins we see Serpentor hearing voices, the voices of the dead conquerors he’s made of. I really like that exploration of his sanity, opposed to the cartoon’s madman from birth approach.

Seeley: Exactly. It’s kind of crazy to expect a whole army of misanthropes and the Cobra leadership to just accept his leadership off the bat as he’s all arrogant and half-cocked. Comics Serpentor doesn’t go crazy until the end,

Schultis: Him strapping the Baroness to the front of his H.I.S.S. Tank as he goes into battle is iconic as both art and as an example of his rising ruthlessness. Let’s talk similarities, because at the end of the day, he’s a failed experiment for the same reason. In both versions, his Achilles heel is an incomplete gestational process and in both iterations, the final source of DNA is substituted. In the cartoon, it’s Sergeant Slaughter, and in the comics, it’s Storm Shadow. Both have a great dramatic benefit to it. In the cartoon, the DNA is replaced because Cobra Commander is sabotaging the experiment. In the comics, the process reanimated a recently killed Storm Shadow.

Seeley: Yes! Great example of stellar writing, and best using the tools at his disposal because Hama had just made the audience like Storm Shadow, spending two years depicting Storm Shadow’s quest to avenge his master’s death, hunting Zartan to Cobra Island and ultimately dying before he could get his vengeance.

Schultis: Completely agree. The actual experiment is more sound in the comics. It’s just a shame it’s all done in one issue. The cartoon made it an event.

Seeley: That’s because Hama didn’t have a choice. I mean, it’s a toy book. Like it or not, Hasbro says here’s the new characters, put ‘em in! Sell more toys!

Schultis: And we bought them, because we were sugar hooked 80’s kids. And, after all this, okay, I guess maybe we’re leaning towards your opinion, after all. I still like the conniving and duplicitous Cobra Commander/Serpentor animosity in the cartoon, but at least in the comics we got rid of Serpentor eventually.

Seeley: Well, the cartoon did, too. The DIC series and Operation: Dragonfly-

Schultis: That series doesn’t count!

Seeley: Fair enough. Just like the original Buffy movie doesn’t count.

Schultis: Careful there, buddy. That’s a whole other argument to be had.

Seeley: Yeah, another one you’ll lose.

And there you have it. A brief glance at what possibly could have been a great platform for two geeks to share their pop culture passion and friendship with the world. We wouldn’t have been the first, but it wouldn’t have mattered. Just having those conversations recorded would have been such a gift. So, if you have such a friend in your life, reach out, give them a call or text. Let them know how much they matter to you, because you never know…

And knowing’s half the battle.